Comments on: Is It Really Sin, or Just a Conviction? http://www.jeremiahotis.com/quiet-thoughts/69/ My mind doesn't wander, I...Look, a butterfly! Tue, 06 Jan 2009 13:14:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: The Most Beautiful Wedding Dress Ever | raNdOM ThOughTs http://www.jeremiahotis.com/quiet-thoughts/69/#comment-176 The Most Beautiful Wedding Dress Ever | raNdOM ThOughTs Tue, 16 Jan 2007 05:56:43 +0000 http://www.jeremiahotis.com/quiet-thoughts/69/#comment-176 [...] I had a conversation with a friend the other night, one of those conversations that starts before midnight and ends when you suddenly realize that the sun has come up. It was a good conversation. We talked about all kinds of things. But one of the things we talked about has really stuck out in my mind, and it has to do with so-called ‘projected holiness.’ This topic seems to have been a hot one recently on the little circle of blogs that I read. Check out Adam’s post, Todd’s post and my post. You’ll see what I mean.Anyway, the question came up about what you do when someone is actively living in sin? Do you approach them and try to ‘restore them in a spirit of gentleness’, or do you ignore the problem lest we be accused of being too legalistic? [...] [...] I had a conversation with a friend the other night, one of those conversations that starts before midnight and ends when you suddenly realize that the sun has come up. It was a good conversation. We talked about all kinds of things. But one of the things we talked about has really stuck out in my mind, and it has to do with so-called ‘projected holiness.’ This topic seems to have been a hot one recently on the little circle of blogs that I read. Check out Adam’s post, Todd’s post and my post. You’ll see what I mean.Anyway, the question came up about what you do when someone is actively living in sin? Do you approach them and try to ‘restore them in a spirit of gentleness’, or do you ignore the problem lest we be accused of being too legalistic? [...]

]]> By: pattiT http://www.jeremiahotis.com/quiet-thoughts/69/#comment-166 pattiT Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:03:02 +0000 http://www.jeremiahotis.com/quiet-thoughts/69/#comment-166 after reading all of the posts to this particular paragraph, i pondered just what was being asked & what should i reply or even whether i needed to reply. so here goes... scantily clad women should affect all of us. but why they affect us they way they do is probably what needs addressed. God made us with senses of which vision is one. therefore we all respond to nakedness. an infant seeing his mother may cry to be fed, a native in another culture sees it as everyday normalcy, we in our culture of freedoms, see it as many things depending on our relationship with God. we can see it as an offense, we can see it as a stumbling block, we can see it as natural. if we run to tell all of the nakedness we have seen are we as bad as noah's son ham who ran to tell his brothers of noah's nakedness? nakedness is a reference to sin as pastor diehl has told time & time again in his teachings. therefore, those who are physically naked or are scantily dressed,are reflecting the sin nature of their own lives. most who run around naked are either very young(child) & don't have a clue to their need of a savior or as an unbeliever haven't come to knowledge of their need for a Savior, or from another culture who's god hasn't become the one true living God, or are very old & suffering from dementia senility or some other memory loss which is where the kind loving son attitude of covering up their nakedness comes into play.there may be other instances but hopefully you see what i'm trying to convey. so for those who are choosing to participate in activites that expose them to nakedness or scantily clad people, why are the clothed ones there? are they there to be a voice in the wilderness calling all to repentance or are they there for pleasure? do we have a right to voice anything to them if we feel an objection in our spirit? i say boldly, YES. if i am in a situation that puts me in risk in my relationship with God or others, i want to be told. i am a part of the body. if my foot wanted to walk in a pile of glass or a bed of hot coal, would my brain allow it? no way!so as a part of the body of Christ i am to assist the body i am to protect them from harm. what they choose to do with my voiced warnings is up to them but i will voice them. i care too much for the cause of Christ to allow the body to be burned, cut, broken & abused for the wrong reasons. to suffer for Christ is one thing to suffer because i went somewhere & did something i should not have been doing & then to not be warned by my friends(part of the body)is just wrong. so there you have my view of this. some of you knew what i would say as you have heard or been a part of my views long before now. i love all of you so hopefully we can grow into maturity & knowledge of Christ together. pattiT after reading all of the posts to this particular paragraph, i pondered just what was being asked & what should i reply or even whether i needed to reply. so here goes… scantily clad women should affect all of us. but why they affect us they way they do is probably what needs addressed. God made us with senses of which vision is one. therefore we all respond to nakedness. an infant seeing his mother may cry to be fed, a native in another culture sees it as everyday normalcy, we in our culture of freedoms, see it as many things depending on our relationship with God. we can see it as an offense, we can see it as a stumbling block, we can see it as natural. if we run to tell all of the nakedness we have seen are we as bad as noah’s son ham who ran to tell his brothers of noah’s nakedness? nakedness is a reference to sin as pastor diehl has told time & time again in his teachings. therefore, those who are physically naked or are scantily dressed,are reflecting the sin nature of their own lives. most who run around naked are either very young(child) & don’t have a clue to their need of a savior or as an unbeliever haven’t come to knowledge of their need for a Savior, or from another culture who’s god hasn’t become the one true living God, or are very old & suffering from dementia senility or some other memory loss which is where the kind loving son attitude of covering up their nakedness comes into play.there may be other instances but hopefully you see what i’m trying to convey. so for those who are choosing to participate in activites that expose them to nakedness or scantily clad people, why are the clothed ones there? are they there to be a voice in the wilderness calling all to repentance or are they there for pleasure? do we have a right to voice anything to them if we feel an objection in our spirit? i say boldly, YES. if i am in a situation that puts me in risk in my relationship with God or others, i want to be told. i am a part of the body. if my foot wanted to walk in a pile of glass or a bed of hot coal, would my brain allow it? no way!so as a part of the body of Christ i am to assist the body i am to protect them from harm. what they choose to do with my voiced warnings is up to them but i will voice them. i care too much for the cause of Christ to allow the body to be burned, cut, broken & abused for the wrong reasons. to suffer for Christ is one thing to suffer because i went somewhere & did something i should not have been doing & then to not be warned by my friends(part of the body)is just wrong. so there you have my view of this. some of you knew what i would say as you have heard or been a part of my views long before now. i love all of you so hopefully we can grow into maturity & knowledge of Christ together. pattiT

]]> By: nathan http://www.jeremiahotis.com/quiet-thoughts/69/#comment-161 nathan Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:18:16 +0000 http://www.jeremiahotis.com/quiet-thoughts/69/#comment-161 Jeremiah, Yes, but i suggest there is a difference between looking out for our fellow Christ followers and projecting our personal convictions on others, i.e., i don't drink wine, therefore, you can't either. Jeremiah,
Yes, but i suggest there is a difference between looking out for our fellow Christ followers and projecting our personal convictions on others, i.e., i don’t drink wine, therefore, you can’t either.

]]> By: joe http://www.jeremiahotis.com/quiet-thoughts/69/#comment-158 joe Tue, 09 Jan 2007 03:35:09 +0000 http://www.jeremiahotis.com/quiet-thoughts/69/#comment-158 Kudos Abby! That is probably one of the best answers I have ever heard to this sticky topic. I'm struggling through this, and I appreciate everyone who has voiced their opinions so far, hopefully, more people will get in on the discussion. This struggle is similar to when I was a little kid, I believed in Jesus because my parents told me to...but there came a day when I had to believe in Jesus for myself. I had to struggle through my belief and make it my own. That's where I am at with this issue/topic/principle (whatever you want to call it.) The discussion really helps me to think it through and put things in correct balance and perspective, but I still have to make it my own. Anyway, let me ask you a question that came out of Abby's response: Do you think it is important for a Christian to look out for their brothers and sisters in Christ? For instance, I have had a hard struggle with pornography in the past, as a friend, and a fellow family member of the body of Christ, if you saw me walking into an adult bookstore wouldn't it be more than appropriate, even biblical, for you to approach me about this, in love? I realize that there are a lot of personal convictions that must remain personal convictions, between an individual and God. But Paul called Peter on the carpet over a situation where Peter was wrong, and Paul also had no hesitation in directly, and publicly, confronting sin in the Corinthian church. Of course, when they repented, he had no hesitation in restoring them. Kudos Abby!

That is probably one of the best answers I have ever heard to this sticky topic.

I’m struggling through this, and I appreciate everyone who has voiced their opinions so far, hopefully, more people will get in on the discussion. This struggle is similar to when I was a little kid, I believed in Jesus because my parents told me to…but there came a day when I had to believe in Jesus for myself. I had to struggle through my belief and make it my own. That’s where I am at with this issue/topic/principle (whatever you want to call it.) The discussion really helps me to think it through and put things in correct balance and perspective, but I still have to make it my own.

Anyway, let me ask you a question that came out of Abby’s response: Do you think it is important for a Christian to look out for their brothers and sisters in Christ? For instance, I have had a hard struggle with pornography in the past, as a friend, and a fellow family member of the body of Christ, if you saw me walking into an adult bookstore wouldn’t it be more than appropriate, even biblical, for you to approach me about this, in love?
I realize that there are a lot of personal convictions that must remain personal convictions, between an individual and God. But Paul called Peter on the carpet over a situation where Peter was wrong, and Paul also had no hesitation in directly, and publicly, confronting sin in the Corinthian church. Of course, when they repented, he had no hesitation in restoring them.

]]> By: Abby http://www.jeremiahotis.com/quiet-thoughts/69/#comment-157 Abby Tue, 09 Jan 2007 03:10:27 +0000 http://www.jeremiahotis.com/quiet-thoughts/69/#comment-157 My attempt... I think the issue here is that different people have different standards. Whether right or wrong, people interpret God's Word in different ways. While you may take one passage very literally, another believer may see it as a metaphor for something completely different. It doesn't make Jeremiah right and so-and-so wrong...it just makes the two people, their interpretations, and their convictions different. (Note: I'm not saying we all have the freedom to misconstrue the Word or warp it into what we want it to say. Thou shalt not kill=don't murder!) Now, say so-and-so is, in fact, in the wrong. Is Jeremiah responsible for that? No. The Bible says that he will be held accountable for himself alone. Ask yourself this: are you causing other people to SIN by living out your convictions, or are you just making them uncomfortable? If the former is true, then it's your responsibility to knock it off. But if the latter is true...they'll either get over it, or the Holy Spirit will begin a work in them regarding that issue. My suggestion is, if someone is a part of a group of people who wants to do something against his or her own personal convictions, all they have to do is excuse themselves. It's unnecessary to make it a point to say, "I'm not going, because I believe that it's a sin." That's exactly what Adam was talking about. However, if we politely back out of such a function, we are guarding ourselves from the sin we may fall into, and we're avoiding projecting our "holiness". In my mind, if we need to tell people about our convictions (outside of absolutes), we need to seriously check our hearts. Personal conviction is just that: PERSONAL conviction. Yes, people may ridicule, or question your convictions...but God never promised that we'd all join hands and sing Kumbayah in harmony just because we believe in Him. We are products of the fall, and though we have the Spirit in us, we are not yet perfect. While God is absolute, and what His Word says is perfect, humans are fallible. And here's the simple answer: our focus has been on ourselves, other people, and the mistakes that all of us make...holiness is 100% about God working in us, not us working to achieve it. My attempt…

I think the issue here is that different people have different standards. Whether right or wrong, people interpret God’s Word in different ways. While you may take one passage very literally, another believer may see it as a metaphor for something completely different. It doesn’t make Jeremiah right and so-and-so wrong…it just makes the two people, their interpretations, and their convictions different. (Note: I’m not saying we all have the freedom to misconstrue the Word or warp it into what we want it to say. Thou shalt not kill=don’t murder!)

Now, say so-and-so is, in fact, in the wrong. Is Jeremiah responsible for that? No. The Bible says that he will be held accountable for himself alone. Ask yourself this: are you causing other people to SIN by living out your convictions, or are you just making them uncomfortable? If the former is true, then it’s your responsibility to knock it off. But if the latter is true…they’ll either get over it, or the Holy Spirit will begin a work in them regarding that issue. My suggestion is, if someone is a part of a group of people who wants to do something against his or her own personal convictions, all they have to do is excuse themselves. It’s unnecessary to make it a point to say, “I’m not going, because I believe that it’s a sin.” That’s exactly what Adam was talking about. However, if we politely back out of such a function, we are guarding ourselves from the sin we may fall into, and we’re avoiding projecting our “holiness”. In my mind, if we need to tell people about our convictions (outside of absolutes), we need to seriously check our hearts. Personal conviction is just that: PERSONAL conviction. Yes, people may ridicule, or question your convictions…but God never promised that we’d all join hands and sing Kumbayah in harmony just because we believe in Him.

We are products of the fall, and though we have the Spirit in us, we are not yet perfect. While God is absolute, and what His Word says is perfect, humans are fallible.

And here’s the simple answer: our focus has been on ourselves, other people, and the mistakes that all of us make…holiness is 100% about God working in us, not us working to achieve it.

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